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Final Fantasy VII (PC Framerate/Lag Issue Explained 34 FPS is MAX)

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  • Final Fantasy VII (PC Framerate/Lag Issue Explained 34 FPS is MAX)

    Hello, everyone!

    I heard people were talking about me having 36 FPS(?) Joking? Whoever joked around with that should read the following and really watch all of my links, please.

    XeroKynos (A member of SPEEDDEMOSARCHIVE, and the WORLD RECORD HOLDER for the SEGMENTED SPEEDRUN of FINAL FANTASY VII [PC] with an end time of 6:40).

    Note Kynos' time entering Wall Market (37:52)
    Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.


    Note Deathtome's time entering Wall Market (37:46)
    Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.


    Note Nenkozan's time entering Wall Market - !FPS CHANGER/CHEAT! (37:16)
    Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.


    2 Legit times, and 1 Cheated time. The cheated one with 34 FPS clearly won (since when streaming it's IMPOSSIBLE to get 34 FPS flat all the time like Nenkozan did).

    KYNOS is a supreme example since we are at about the same skill level when it comes to running Midgar. He have the world record for Yuffie Warping (sub 2½ hours completing the game!). If you want to inspect more you can check what his 1:38:XX Midgar Escape is in the run I linked (on part 2 or 3 though). Mine is 1:38:45 on that WR run. Pretty much the same. I asked him about his specs. He is using a random laptop with AMD Quad-Core, as I am doing. I doubt we even have the same computer!

    The game is capped, no matter how good the computer is, to 60 FPS (Menu), 34 FPS (Dungeons), 30 FPS (World Map), 15 FPS (Battles). 34 FPS on INTEL processor is NOT the same as 34 FPS on AMD processor. INTEL says 34 FPS, but DO NOT run at 34 FPS(?) I don't know if people have other things that affect the time. On my INTEL processor COMPUTER I lost 50-60 seconds on the AIR BUSTER split (think about how much text skipping there is and barely any encounters - meaning that it would probably be less time if there are MORE battles later on with the bosses etc.).

    I am comparing my BEST AMD time with my one-time-only run to Air Buster on my INTEL processor computer. Let's say 1 minute behind each 30 minutes (exaggurated, but STILL! It would be -14 minutes from a run on INTEL processor).



    Final Fantasy VII Steam Version Settings:
    640x480 (Fullscreen)

    Open Broadcaster Software (OBS):
    30 Fps/640x360 resolution (widescreen 16:9 for splits/camera)
    PROCESSOR SETTINGS: IDLE/SUPERFAST
    BIT RATE: 700kbit / 2000kbit BUFFER

    Aero Desktop HAVE to be ENABLED in order for the game to run AS CLOSE TO 34 FPS as possible, as far as I know.

    Playing while STREAMING will decrease the frame rate by a little. This means that while streaming I am at about 33 FPS to 34 FPS, but NEVER 34 FPS constant!




    In my honest opinion there is no need to disqualify something that is LEGIT. I seem to be one of a few people in the world that can play the game as it is intended to on the RE-RELEASED VERSION (or close to it - still not 34 FPS constantly *see Nenkozan's run*).

    What do people have to do to reach my run speed? - Buy an QUAD-CORE AMD processor (laptop preferably), Get Windows 7 (64-bit), Enable Aero Desktop, Get Open Broadcaster Software (OBS) use setting provided above.



    The problem I find with disqualifying my run is that 30 FPS in dungeons changes EVERYTHING. Yuffie is not worthwhile, and all the strategies I have adapted due to the run speed outside of battles will be completely different. Then it would be the EXACT same game as the PS1 version. Then I guess people should play the PS1 version, which I am going to do as well now. (Yeah, I know, you shouldn't have to and I agree).

    I am just a bit disappointed about the talk last night. My hardware is NOT cheating. I am NOT getting more than 34 FPS. I play LEGIT, and I am SORRY that so many people struggle to play the game as it is MEANT to be PLAYED on the re-release (steam version). I have provided all the information I could gather. So please respect how it is. I understand people have Intel Processors (since they are supposedly better?). Just like I have to buy an american PS2 with an american FF7 to compete with Carnage. I think it's going to be the same in this situation as well. Unless they patch it I guess the only LEGIT solution is buying an AMD processor. Should be less than $100, I believe.

    I will do an INTEL run for you guys that can't run the game as fast, but it will NOT be as good or close to as good as the WR time.

    I am sorry, but hope it helps some of you to understand how the situation is. I cannot beat my WR time that I got due to RNG. I mean theoretically it is possible, but to what cost? Play the game for a few months AGAIN(?) to get the same chance? I just cannot replicate what happened without going insane = still cannot show you what my time would've been on an Intel processor. So therefore I am torn about what to do. I would NOT mind if people change the FPS, if someone can come up with the exact formula of the FPS I am playing with.

    My WR computer:
    AMD A8-3520M Quad-Core (1,4 Ghz/1,6 Ghz Turbo)
    8GB RAM
    AMD Radeon HD 6620G
    Windows 7 (64-Bit)


    One last funny scenario. Imagine 90% of the runners on LzH have a PS2 and FF7 on PAL version. Carnage is CRUSHING you guys with his NTSC version. He gets sub 8 tomorrow, and then you guys complain that his game runs faster. There is no way you guys can race against his time with a PAL version. So the only way would be if CARNAGE should run the PAL version just so that you guys have something to compare with. I think it's basically the same in the scenario above. I think we all can agree on that at the end of the day? I sure hope we can, because I don't want to re-do my run. I hope you understand.

    - regards Deathtome
    Last edited by Deathtome; 10-29-2013, 02:32 AM. Reason: Typo

  • #2
    noone was ever talking about disqualifyig your run death we were discussing since your comp runs it at 36 that it just presents an inherent FPS advantage but to clarify u say urs runs 34??? cause i heard from everyone 36

    and to clarify console things, no one would ever compare NTSC to PAL PAL is lawl slow, but there arent as many variables in a sony Ps2 as there are with everyones individual computers all we were discussing was a way to have a standard of FPS play so everyone is equal in a world where everyones computer is different thats all buddy no hate or anything like that <3

    if you can spare the time to pop in chat tomorrow during y run we can iron out all the silly details cause this is important to everyone <3

    and again noone accused you of cheating man do not misunderstand <3
    Last edited by CarNage64; 10-29-2013, 03:02 AM.
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    • #3
      Alright Carnage. I couldn't see the chat, but I have been getting constantly harassed by people on my stream dropping by saying 34 FPS runner/cheater so I thought it might have been those guys chatting on the stream. Yeah, it is even less than 34 FPS when I stream. Around 33-34 FPS I would say. Hard to tell, though. So my computer is still not perfect for FF7, but sure seems to be better than the most out there. If a computer would be able to run the game at higher frame rate it would still be capped (due to the FPS locks the game have itself - like the menu, world map, battles).

      I was thinking about it a bit more WHY Intel are inferior in the scenario. I think it comes down to the Hyper-Threading technology (that is basically making 1 core act like 2 virtual cores). I think that is where the problem lies. So even though it may be displaying 34 FPS to people, then I guess it will still not run as fast as AMD due to this. This is just a speculation since I cannot know for sure.

      Yeah, I know the PAL/NTSC is uncomparable. My point was just to ask if all those people have to buy american versions just to race you, or should you buy the PAL game so that the majority of the runners could compare their times with you?

      If people find that a FPS lock is in place, I think it should be closer to 34 FPS as it is intended to run.

      Alright Carnage, I will try to stop by the stream tomorrow if they want to know more. Thanks man for the answer! <3
      Last edited by Deathtome; 10-29-2013, 07:49 AM. Reason: Typo

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      • #4
        To address the PAL/NTSC example you put deathtome, they are different categories entirely, so to properly address your analogy we wouldn't expect anybody to do anything, but carnage's wr being on ntsc would be recognized as non-comparable to the pal records. Furthermore, if we were to assume there was no pal/ntsc categories, then we would expect the minority to conform to the majority, as it is with all speedrunning categories.

        Also, you should note that when it comes to PCs and speedrunning there are many things that do disqualify runs... for instance you cannot use project 64 2.0 for a super mario 64 or zelda run, but you can use project 64 1.7, because 2.0 has a speed advantage.

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        • #5
          There is NO reason to limit the fps for speedrunners to any value. Wouldn't that mean we would have to do that for every PC game?

          examples:
          One game might lag on my laptop so I find it unfair that it runs faster for others. Do the others have to limit themselves now? I dont think so.
          Speedrunners who run ps1 games HAVE to buy a PS2 Slim because of the fast disc speed option which makes it run faster to get a WR. I cant afford a ps2 slim so I have to run it on my ps1. Do the others have to do that now too? Nope.

          Nobody said its fair, but thats just how it is. If you want to be the fastest, practice with what you have until you can afford the things you need for a WR.

          The thing that angers me the most about this topic is that its a prime example about people forgetting what speedrunning is all about.
          German Final Fantasy runner and router:
          FF6 Glitchless (PAL PSN) 9:08:32 (Version Record)
          FF7 No Slots (PAL PSN) 11:21:07 (Version Record, very outdated)

          Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy
          Twitter: https://twitter.com/Wypy_Speedruns

          Comment


          • #6
            To be fair though Wypy, speed running isn't just about who gets the lowest time, if it were then TAS would be the only category that matters. There are reasons that there are different categories, it's about the competition. This is why the community as a whole decides on what is and is not acceptable for a speed run. For instance, turbo controllers are not allowed. Why? Because the community said no. When we deal with PC speed runs things can get tricky because there is more room for cheating. Where do you draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not? Considering deathtome is getting speeds that others can't replicate tells you that there is a problem with this category. How can you have a category that only 1 or 2 people will ever be able to compete in? It's simple, you can't. I see it as being perfectly reasonable for the community as a whole to step in and say, look, "this category isn't competitive, we can't have it, and thus we need to make some changes", much in the same way that they did regarding N64 games and project 64 2.0.

            I could honestly see the PC category of FF7 being abolished because of this, and frankly I'd support it. A category that gives an unfair advantage to whoever has the best computer seems wrong.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wypy View Post
              The thing that angers me the most about this topic is that its a prime example about people forgetting what speedrunning is all about.
              The thing I meant with this quote is fun.

              If you wanna run competitive, adapt to the fastest equipment.
              If you wanna run for fun, don't worry about things like that. Simple as that.
              German Final Fantasy runner and router:
              FF6 Glitchless (PAL PSN) 9:08:32 (Version Record)
              FF7 No Slots (PAL PSN) 11:21:07 (Version Record, very outdated)

              Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy
              Twitter: https://twitter.com/Wypy_Speedruns

              Comment


              • #8
                I run the game at 32 fps and do runs. I know i'll never beat a 34 fps user at all. But it's not about that, it's about personal times.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Deathtome View Post
                  ...
                  Framerate differences are explained here:


                  The difference between then and now is that technology has changed. The hardware is different. So, the variation in FPS's are more than likely caused by differences in hardware. Unfortunately, they didn't account for that when they coded it for the original PC version. The Steam version is simply a modification of the original PC version. I doubt they changed the algorithm for determining FPS since that would be quite deep in the engine for the game. So, either get different physical hardware or find hardware emulators to run the game differently. Or, if it would ever be legit, make a mod that keeps the FPS consistent independent of hardware. That would probably be the best to make it an even playing field for everyone.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is there any way, and I know I'm necro'ing this post somewhat, but is there some what of limiting FPS to 30 for all runners in order to make the run completely fair? I mean I know it's a case of well it's not the people with 34FPS fault or problem, but it's a lot different than NTSC and PAL, in that it's not a case of getting a different region console. There's a whole bunch of things that could possibly dictate the FPS for FF7, so why not find a way to limit FPS to 30?

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                    • #11
                      First of all that would be software manipulation and you could never rule out people cheating. But in general making a game run slower then it in theory can is not what you want to do for a speedrun.
                      Also thats just how PC games work. Most of them can never be played on equal terms thanks to load times, lag, ect. If you would start limiting one game where would you stop? Then other players would come out and want to limit players with better pcs because they cant afford it but want to be competitive for the WR. PS1 game runners have to buy a PS2 as well to be competitive for the WR so why should it be different for PC runners?

                      I can just quote myself here from an earlier post:
                      If you wanna run competitive, adapt to the fastest equipment.
                      If you wanna run for fun, don't worry about things like that. Simple as that.
                      German Final Fantasy runner and router:
                      FF6 Glitchless (PAL PSN) 9:08:32 (Version Record)
                      FF7 No Slots (PAL PSN) 11:21:07 (Version Record, very outdated)

                      Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy
                      Twitter: https://twitter.com/Wypy_Speedruns

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree, unfortunately for some games to get that world records you have to use the best equipment. If you want to run cheaper games competitively get an NES. Kappa
                        Todd C.
                        Twitch.Tv/TheonecalledTodd

                        My personal bests (PB Tracker)

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                        • #13
                          I like Final Fantasy VII and i can play it overnight =))

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